Chatting With A. Wing And A Prayer
By Fred Banta
T'Mershi Duween, #63, March 2000
(© Crap Headlines (again))
Last year marked the ten year anniversary of Frank Zappa's 1988 band for the
'Broadway the Hard Way' tour. This particular touring outfit is featured on the
following Zappa records: 'Broadway the Hard Way', 'Make a Jazz Noise Here', 'The
Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life' and 'You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore
Vols 4 & 5'. (If you do not have these records, do yourself a favor ... at least
buy 'Make a Jazz Noise Here'.)
Members of what Frank dubbed The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life have
been playing around as Banned from Utopia. Recent gigs in Los Angeles have
included: Ike Willis, Tommy Mars, Mike Miller, Walt Fowler, Bruce Fowler, Paul
Carmen, Albert Wing, Kurt McGettrick, Tom Fowler, Arthur Barrow, Chad Wackerman,
and Ralph Humphry. Banned from Utopia also has a record out on Muffin Records
entitled 'A Tribute to the Music of Frank Zappa', a digital recording of an
earlier incarnation of the band from their performance at the 1994 Stuttgart
Festival in Germany.
So here follows an interview with Albert Wing conducted on Tuesday February
17, 1998 by Fred Banta.
FB: First, I just wanted to say, as a Zappa fan, I know you through the 1988
tour. And looking into your background, I see you've been a session musician for
a good number of other popular artists. That is, you probably are the only
Albert Wing ...
AW: Probably (laughs).
FB: Could you tell me about any formal training you've had?
AW: Well, I started out at the age of nine on clarinet, then switched to
saxophone about when I was thirteen. From there, around eighteen, I went to
Cerritos Junior College in Norwalk. From there, at nineteen, I went to Salt Lake
City where I met the Fowler brothers. And I met their dad, Bill Fowler; he
helped me out and got me some scholarships to go to school. So I went for a
couple of years there, and we kind of formed a little group. It was the Fowler
brothers and I and a couple of other guys from the University and we gigged
around town ...
FB: Is this Airpocket?
AW: This was before Airpocket. Then this group became Airpocket later on,
when we moved to LA.
FB: I had never heard of Airpocket before Ike (Willis) started talking about
it from the stage (at the Banned From Utopia gig in North Hollywood on 1/31/98
where he spotted in the audience some fans from long-ago Airpocket gigs in Salt
Lake City).
AW: There are some CDs: we have 'Breakfast for Dinosaurs' and 'The Hunter'.
(Note: I'd thought these were Fowler Brother records. (That's what the covers
say-Ed)) And a very obscure album called 'Fly On' which is not even available
anymore. It was recorded, I believe, in '73, maybe 74.
FB: Okay, let's go back to your musical training. Who are your influences?
AW: Well, I listened to a lot of Charlie Parker, John Coltrane ... a lot of
the artists from the Bebop days. And then ... I checked out some Yakety Sax
stuff just for fun. Boots Randolph, he was kind of cool (laughs). I checked out
a lot of groups like Spike Jones ... just comedy too.
FB: Speaking of Coltrane, I'm not really a jazz guy, just stuff that I've
picked up. But Milt Jackson, the vibraphonist, is going to play down at Union
Station in a few weeks, he played on the 1959 Atlantic recording of Coltrane,
and his band is going to be playing inside Union Station, so it should be kind
of an interesting ambient concert ...
AW: Yeah it's pretty cool, man. I played there.
FB: Oh you have?
AW: Yeah, pretty out-there.
FB: Was it with the Da Camera Society?
AW: No, it was casual, I don't know ... very obscure, you know. I do those
too.
FB: I'm a volunteer for the Da Camera Society, I'm like an usher for this
Milt Jackson concert, and a couple of other concerts this season that have been
real good. One notably was Pancho Sanchez, saw them at the Mayan Theater ... It
was so good, it really reminded me ... I really thought of Frank's '88 band when
I saw them ... because they were really tight. The music wasn't nearly as
complex, you know, as Zappa (in fact it was downright conservative in
comparison), but it was really fun. It was great to listen to. So was your
family influential on your musical upbringing?
AW: Yeah, kind of. I had an older brother that played trumpet and another
little brother that played trombone. And my brother that played trumpet, we
played in various groups together, all the way until I left for college. Then
after that he kind of went his way and I kind of went my way. I occasionally
played with him when I got back, then after that I basically was into a
different scene at that point. But then musically we kind of went our different
ways. Plus he was doing really good, and I was still in college scuffling, you
know. Then I moved back to LA and started scuffling here for a while. About '76,
I started a few road gigs here and there. Then in '77, it got a little better.
It kept getting progressively better and better.
FB: I know, it takes time ... Do you prefer soprano or tenor sax?
AW: I like them all. Actually in college I played a lot of baritone sax.
Right now I don't play quite as much, but I do play mainly tenor and soprano and
then occasionally I'll pick up my alto. I have equal facility on a lot of my
instruments, it's just that I kind of prefer tenor and soprano.
FB: Do you teach at all?
AW: Very rarely (laughs). If I see some promise in somebody that wants to
learn something, then I'll take them on and go yeah, I'd like to see them
develop. But as far as a total beginner ... it's hard for me to take that on
because, I mean, where do you start?
FB: Let's talk about your projects. I got a whole list of everybody from
Ethyl Meatplow to Paula Abdul that you've played session for ... You also played
on Michael McDonald's 'Blink of an Eye', The Fowler Brother's 'Breakfast for
Dinosaurs' and 'The Hunter', and Tom Fowler's 'Heartscapes'. Ethyl Meatplow,
Diana Ross, George Benson, a record called 'Music Inspired by The Lion King' ...
I guess that was with the Fowler Brothers as well?
AW: Right. That was a hot summer project, I believe.
FB: Impressive resume you have, I'll tell you. Well, how did you get in
Frank's bard?
AW: I'd known Frank for quite a long time through Bruce and Tom. Originally
I'd auditioned for Frank's group back in'73 or'74. And actually he said that I
had the gig. And I auditioned on the 'Bebop Tango' and played the 'Bebop Tango'
for him, and nailed that. And he said, 'Wow, pretty impressive'. Then I waited
around for a half hour at the Sunset studios where they were rehearsing. And
Frank came back and said 'Sorry about telling you you're in the band, but we
really can't afford you right now, you know'. I don't know what all that was
about, but I guess he'd had a meeting with his management, but he'd already had
a sax player anyway, Napoleon Murphy Brock. So I guess they were looking for
something else because eventually he got Don Preston and Walt Fowler to do the
gig, so I felt it was probably just a combination of a horns thing because if he
already had a sax player, why have me, you know?
So anyway, we kept in contact throughout the years until 1988. I mean we had
meetings and he'd send me literature, this and that saying 'I'm thinking about
doing these pieces'. I'd always take them and learn the pieces, or try to learn
them. Some were so hard, you know what I mean. It was like 'Wow, I think I need a
rhythm section on this one'. But I got them basically down and I'd try get them
as good as I could without sitting there with the band. But nothing really ever
happened until late '87, I mean when we started rehearsing. That's when it
happened, so you know I was ready (laughs).
FB: So were you a Zappa fan prior to your '73 audition?
AW: I listened to Zappa quite a bit, yeah. I wasn't a quote-unquote big fan,
you know what I mean. He was one of the people I'd listen to, you know. As I got
older I got more into his music. I guess in '73 I was a pretty big fan; yeah I'd
say so because at that point I had learned a lot of the songs, so ...
FB: That was the 'Overnite Sensation' tour, correct?
AW: Well, yeah I was checking those albums out and was going 'wow, this
sounds cool'. So, yeah, at that point I was pretty into his gig, and I wanted
it, you know. I wanted to be in the band and part of the whole thing, but it
just didn't happen then.
FB: In late 1987, the pre-tour rehearsals were some four or so months,
correct?
AW: Yeah, around three or four months.
FB: Eight hours a day, six days a week, which is similar to what I've heard
concerning preparation for other Zappa tours. Have you ever seen anything like
that since then? I mean that kind of investment in preparing a band for tour?
AW: Not since ... Frank's the only guy that I recall that put us through
that. That's a lot of training. But his book requires that. I mean, Frank's
stuff was like, you couldn't just walk in, well some guys probably could, but I
couldn't just walk in and play the book.
FB: I think it was Bob Dylan who toured that same year, and I heard his
pre-tour rehearsals went on for like a week or two. Such a contrast to Frank's
four months, eight hours a day, six days a week ...
AW: Yeah, it was gruelling.
FB: But I'll tell you what, the product really shows that investment. The CDs
Frank has out from that tour are probably the best music in my catalogue of four
or five hundred CDs. It's not just the musicians' execution of tile material,
but the overall dynamics of the sound of those records, it just sounds so good
to me. And I'll tell you the jazz element that came out of that band was just
the best. Was that the first time you played with Banned from Utopia over at the
Baked Potato? (N. Hollywood 1/31/98)
AW: Well, I jammed on the very first time they played there, last year some
time'? I walked into the second set and jammed on 'Echidna's Arf and 'Village'.
FB: I missed that. I only saw the 1st show. That's why I got tickets for both
shows this time around. I saw both shows on the 31st. I really loved it.
AW: Great! Yeah. Did you see Paul Carmen? I think he came in.
FB: No, I didn't.
AW: He came in the second day, I guess. So we had the full-on tour-de-force
there for the horn section.
FB: At the show we went to, my wife overheard Ike Willis telling a fan that
Vinnie Colaiuta was going to sit in on the next night's show. Did that happen?
AW: No, he didn't come in. I was expecting him to come in, but you know.
Yeah, it would have been great to see him. Vinnie's a guy, like I say, that
could walk in and play the book (laughs). He's just one of those kind of
drummers, you know?
FB: I've seen Banned from Utopia with Chad Wackerman and with Ralph Humphrey
on drums, and I enjoyed both of them. I'm a bit partial to Chad. He played some
licks that just knocked me out of my seat practically ...
AW: Yeah, I think Chad could walk in and nail the book too, you know.
FB: Incredible talent. So do you keep in touch with any of the other 1988
Zappa band alumni?
AW: Well, you know, me and Walt Fowler; we do Diana Ross' gig. I still do
sessions with Bruce (Fowler) and Walt (Fowler) a lot, and occasionally Kurt
(McGettrick). But that's about it. Everybody else kind of went their separate
ways. I don't know where everybody else went, but they're apparently doing their
thing.
FB: I hear Robert Martin is the musical director for 'Cybil'.
AW: Yeah, he's hanging. They're also an item, I think. So that's nice work if
you can get it. (laughs)
FB: I'll tell you. Mike Keneally is banging away with his band. He's
transcribing his audio journal from the '88 tour on the Internet. He's putting
it out on his web page on each day's prospective ten year anniversary. One of
the things that struck me was when he was talking about the memorisation
required to play in that band. It was in my view, almost superhuman. To recall
all those songs. You guys rehearsed 75 or so songs for the tour ...
AW: And I think probably, we were maybe up to one hundred and twenty that we
were capable of playing at any given point.
FB: Absolutely incredible.
AW: Yeah, that was amazing, I tell you. The real amazing thing was that
(Airpocket & Banned from Utopia guitarist) Mike Miller called me up a couple of
weeks before the Utopia gig and asked me to do the gig. So I ran out to the
garage and got my book (laughs). And I started rifling through, trying to get
everything together, you know. So, I mean we did a few rehearsals and a lot of
it came back. Then all of it came back on our first gig, so the first night was
really good.
FB: Yeah, I REALLY liked it. I wanted to get your perspective on the gig ...
I was thoroughly entertained, and there were several passages that just really
moved me.
AW: Yeah the first night was good, I mean for me, because it was the first
official night that I was back in the band, you know what I mean. So I was
really excited. My energy level was way up there.
FB: Yeah, it was. You played some sweet solos.
AW: Thanks.
FB: That was really good. And you know it was so nice to hear that band play
in a little dinky club with the members of (what Frank dubbed) The Best Band You
Never Heard in Your Life. That was just beautiful.
AW: Yeah that was a lot of fun. We're trying to get some other bookings.
FB: Any plans on getting any other Zappa alumni for vocalists?
AW: I'm not sure. I think Ike's our main guy pretty much right now. He's
great. I mean, he knows gobs of material. Robert Martin did a lot of it, a major
part. We actually asked him to come down and sit in and sing 'Zomby Woof. So,
you never know, things might change, maybe there might le some musical chairs
happening, I'm not sure. But I think Ike's the main staple for our vocals Maybe
they might add another vocalist just to make it, I don't know, you never know.
Cause, I kind of like Frank's doo-wop scene ... with the three-part harmony, you
know and all that. That was, like, cool.
FB: He's the one that made me come out of the closet about doo-wop, I love
doo-wop!
AW: Yeah, I mean I'm a closet doo-wop guy. I dig that stuff. I don't want to
admit it, really, but I like listening to it cause it's cool (laughs).
FB: I know. One of my favorite albums by Frank is 'Cruising with Ruben and
the Jets'.
AW: (laughs) Yeah, that was cool.
FB: So, do you want to share any anecdotes from the 1988 tour?
AW: Let's see ... I had a lot of fun, I'll tell you that.
FB: You know, I have about 20 different audience recordings of shows from
that tour. One of the things that strikes me on a lot of the shows was the
joviality. Frank seems really happy. I've also heard of moments that Frank was
singing to his daughter, Diva; and his kids were doing cartwheels on stage.
AW: That would be like the Philadelphia, DC show, around there. I think that
was a real good part of the tour, at the very beginning. Then toward the middle
and the end of the tour, of course you heard what happened about ... you know.
Just that, it was kind of falling apart as far as personalities, I guess. I mean
I didn't have any problem with anybody. I mean I straightened it out with
everybody. There was a little friction in the band between certain members, I
mean I was not without friction, but I resolved most of my stuff before I got on
the road with who ever I had a problem with. I would just talk to him and see
what was up.
So like in the middle of the '88 tour, I mean, I understood everybody's side,
you know, and I just let Frank know that whatever happens, I'm still ready. I
still want to go on the road and play because I'm playing with him, you know
what I mean? Whoever, whatever happens, you know, I'm on his side, totally. And
that's what I let him know. That's what I felt ... because I wanted to play like
... you know you wait that long to play with Frank, I just wanted to continue. I
was just getting started on this gig and I was like the new kid on the block
basically, or one of the new kids on the block. I just still had a lot of that
energy ... to be used, you know.
Also, it was cool because I met a lot of interesting people on the road, you
know. A lot of different types of characters that would follow the band around
from gig to gig. Kind of like a lot of Dead-head types that would manage to
scrape up enough money to get to the next gig. It was cool! You get to know a
lot of people on the road and you see them at every gig. It made life
interesting, and it made the tour go a lot easier because it became more of like
... you felt like you had a road family (laughs). It was great.
FB: Definitely, Frank has that contingent of hard core fans.
AW: You know we had regulars and once in a while he'd invite them up on stage
and like do what they do. I mean you probably already know about, I guess it was
in Musician's Magazine? Frank gave that interview about why the band broke up?
FB: Yeah, I've read some of that. My understanding is that Scott Thunes (who
was managing the pre-tour rehearsals in LA while Frank ran around town to
promote the tour) was a little overzealous during rehearsals and that caused
some resentment and misunderstanding and it kind of deteriorated into that. And
I also understand that Frank had mentioned during the tour, in the middle of it,
that he was going to hire another bass player to replace Scott. And I think that
when Frank came around and polled the band, 'Will you continue the tour with
Scott?', it seems that the band members who voted against Scott figured that
Frank would say, 'Okay, we'll just hire another bass player'.
AW: Right. That was the best case scenario to continue the tour, I thought.
But then Frank decided that well, you know, hey. And it's his band; he decides
who's going to be in the band. And that's basically what happened. He said we're
going to continue with this band, and then left it at that.
FB: One of the things that struck me the last time I saw Banned From Utopia;
I was watching Arthur Barrow. And I thought, you know, he would have been a
great replacement for Thunes, but ...
AW: Yeah, Arthur's a very great player.
FB: I agree. You know the last I heard of Scott was that he was working last
year in a club in San Francisco as a doorman ... And that he's out of the music
business.
AW: Yeah, I heard he quit playing completely. That's amazing. But that's like
his personality and temperament. He runs hot and cold, maybe he'll pick it up
again eventually.
FB: Yeah, that's what I hope too.
AW: But to sum it up, it was just a groove to work with and be around Frank.
You know, being on the road is tough, but it was just ... considering you're
working with Frank and hanging with him, it was really cool. That's what I dug.
FB: The wonderful moments that Frank's 1988 band created ...
AW: Yeah. I can look back and say you know what? I had a great time. I wish
it hadn't of stopped so soon.
(FB: Me too.)
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